AR malfunctions

[dial1911]

The only notable failure in my AR (that I remember clearly) is a stuck case because of a badly resized reload (my fault). It got jammed in to the chamber and wouldn't fire nor come unstuck- disassembly required to pry the brass cased round out by the rim.

Other than that, not much has gone wrong with them. I've had failure to fires that were due to ammo.

 

[dougiemac]

You can't operate with an AK. If you attempt to operate with an AK, you are officially a terrorist.

Well I guess I'm on the list.

 

[Willy Leadwell]

Well I guess I'm on the list.

Well we already established that your operator status has exceeded the operational capacity of any and all available equipment, so it really doesn't matter what you use, but for the rest of us...

 

[boss_hawg]

I've had a couple of issues with some of my builds that I will try to list here.

One was with my 10.5" SBR build (556) that was due to using a CAR buffer when it was way over-gassed. It wasn't extracting the spent casing and picking up the next round because the bolt was moving too fast. A change to a an H2 buffer and an o-ring on the extractor spring cleared that up quickly. I now have 1000 rounds through without issue. Also, most of the rounds before and after were with a suppressor which probably compounded the problem.

I bought a budget barrel once that had an improperly timed barrel extension. No matter what combination - it was denting brass as it failed to feed. That one is now my dedicated 22 upper. Countless 22 rounds through it now without failure but I wouldn't go back to 5.55 on that one.

One of my first upper builds had a misaligned gas port. Upon realignment, that one ran 100%. Builder error there.

With PSA or BCM complete uppers, I have suffered no malfunctions. I haven't run one past 2500 rounds without cleaning so there is that.

With my current 9mm upper, I switched to a removable magwell for colt mags. The mag block at first was seated too low which caused some issues but upon realigning the block in the upper, no problems through 1000 rounds.

A properly constructed setup with periodic cleaning and lubing should not be a problem.

 

[Jake]

Honest question: are there any NATO countries that use/supply steel case 5.56?
I know there was a mix of steel and brass case 7.62x51 NATO ammo in use by NATO.

I have no idea. ???

 

[erkinator 2]

Sig AR, nothing yet, 4 years later. Piston driven, not much attention to cleaning every time either. Bolt stays pretty clean.

 

[erkinator 2]

You can't operate with an AK. If you attempt to operate with an AK, you are officially a terrorist.

Does couch diver qualify as a terrorist title with an AK?

 

[Shemp]

Sig AR, nothing yet, 4 years later. Piston driven, not much attention to cleaning every time either. Bolt stays pretty clean.

Round count is more important than time for this exercise

 

[Waterguy]

Honest question: are there any NATO countries that use/supply steel case 5.56?
I know there was a mix of steel and brass case 7.62x51 NATO ammo in use by NATO.

China?

 

[Strider12]

China?

They've never used it for any other caliber.

 

[freedom]

Good point.


I'm really just trying to get a feel for the average users failure rate.

I'd start a thread on AK failures but I don't think there's a big enough sample group here to matter.....AK operators just aren't as common.

I've owned 3 Aks and had issues 2 of them. I think one was mag related and the other was trigger reset issue, I think related to the saiga conversion. I still have the saiga but rarely shoot it, I've been meaning to replace the trigger and hopefully fix it. MAK90, no issues, maybe 1k rounds.

 

[Strider12]

Good point.


I'm really just trying to get a feel for the average users failure rate.

I'd start a thread on AK failures but I don't think there's a big enough sample group here to matter.....AK operators just aren't as common.

After a good 5-6k rounds of 7.62, 5.45 and 5.56 through AKs the only issue I've ever had was using Troy battle mags through my M85. I went back to GI and never an issue. I always used Surplus mags for 7.62 and 5.45 with the exception of Palms for 7.62. No issues at all.

 

[Shemp]

After a good 5-6k rounds of 7.62, 5.45 and 5.56 through AKs the only issue I've ever had was using Troy battle mags through my M85. I went back to GI and never an issue. I always used Surplus mags for 7.62 and 5.45 with the exception of Palms for 7.62. No issues at all.

I've yet to have an,issue with an AK but collectively I've only got maybe 2k rounds through them.

Not counting the Air Force M16s and M4s I've shot I think I've only experienced one failure with an AR pattern rifle and that was with an Armalite AR10....which got me thinking about how overblown the AR reliability myth is.

 

[EugenFJR]

Just my .2 cents from what I have seen. 1st off, I dont really count the mag's as part of the weapons system, and have seen many, many M16 mag related failures. Mainly because supply NCO's reissue fucked up mags, so I tell all my students if they have a bad mag to stomp that fucker flat, THEN turn it in to the supply NCO. I have never seen a AK related mag failure, but I'm sure they happen from time to time. So the advantage go's to the AK when it comes to mags.

2nd Brass vs steel ammo... The AK was made to shoot steel ammo, so of course it's going to be reliable feeding steel ammo. Brass 7.62x39 is rare, so if your a reloader your shit out of luck, and I have never heard of a target load for AK's.
The M16 was made to shoot brass ammo, it tends to have a tighter chamber so steel cased ammo might or might not work in your rifle. My Doublestar rifle eats whatever I feed it, but I have gotten away from the cheep 5.56 steel ammo mainly because the accuracy sucks. As everyone knows there is a shit ton of target load's for the M16, and it shoots a whole slew of different grain weights and you cant tune your rifle into a serious tack driver.
Advantage M16 platform
*** As far as Issue steel ammo in 5.56, I dont think its ever been issued in a steel case, at least not in the last 40 years or more.

Weapon platform/design... The AK is a simple, low maintenance rifle, but it tends to be a lot less accurate then the M16. Also I think the AR has serious advantages, when it comes to weapons manipulation... The mag release, mag change, safety/fire switch, bolt hold open, and IMHO the charging handle, esp. if you run a BCM gunfighter.

As far as malfunctions, I've seen crazy stuff happen w/ the M16 platform, but then again, I spent 4 years doing nothing but running Army ranges full time, and 3 years doing it in the Army reserve. This is the worst malfunction I have ever seen, and I very much doubt I'll ever see it again...

A bolt over-ride, with a double feed.

 

[Shemp]

Just my .2 cents from what I have seen. 1st off, I dont really count the mag's as part of the weapons system, and have seen many, many M16 mag related failures. Mainly because supply NCO's reissue fucked up mags, so I tell all my students if they have a bad mag to stomp that fucker flat, THEN turn it in to the supply NCO. I have never seen a AK related mag failure, but I'm sure they happen from time to time. So the advantage go's to the AK when it comes to mags.

2nd Brass vs steel ammo... The AK was made to shoot steel ammo, so of course it's going to be reliable feeding steel ammo. Brass 7.62x39 is rare, so if your a reloader your shit out of luck, and I have never heard of a target load for AK's.
The M16 was made to shoot brass ammo, it tends to have a tighter chamber so steel cased ammo might or might not work in your rifle. My Doublestar rifle eats whatever I feed it, but I have gotten away from the cheep 5.56 steel ammo mainly because the accuracy sucks. As everyone knows there is a shit ton of target load's for the M16, and it shoots a whole slew of different grain weights and you cant tune your rifle into a serious tack driver.
Advantage M16 platform
*** As far as Issue steel ammo in 5.56, I dont think its ever been issued in a steel case, at least not in the last 40 years or more.

Weapon platform/design... The AK is a simple, low maintenance rifle, but it tends to be a lot less accurate then the M16. Also I think the AR has serious advantages, when it comes to weapons manipulation... The mag release, mag change, safety/fire switch, bolt hold open, and IMHO the charging handle, esp. if you run a BCM gunfighter.

As far as malfunctions, I've seen crazy stuff happen w/ the M16 platform, but then again, I spent 4 years doing nothing but running Army ranges full time, and 3 years doing it in the Army reserve. This is the worst malfunction I have ever seen, and I very much doubt I'll ever see it again...

A bolt over-ride, with a double feed.
View attachment 13772

DAMN that's one helluva malfunction.

I tend to consider the mag as part of the system...If you remove the BCG then you've got a very poor club....remove the mag and you've got the same. If you need it to fight then it's part of the system as far as I'm concerned.


You're exactly the kind of person I hoped would respond.....what is your estimation on mean rounds to failure during your time as the range instructor?

 

[EugenFJR]

DAMN that's one helluva malfunction.

I tend to consider the mag as part of the system...If you remove the BCG then you've got a very poor club....remove the mag and you've got the same. If you need it to fight then it's part of the system as far as I'm concerned.


You're exactly the kind of person I hoped would respond.....what is your estimation on mean rounds to failure during your time as the range instructor?

Mean rounds to failure... Hell, I have no idea. I have AT LEST 10,000 through my rifle, probably closer to 15,000 rounds. I can only remember a hand full of failures, mainly because I run my rifle's BCG "wet". I do remember going to a 3 gun comp. and loading a brand new, I just took it out of the plastic, AR mag... Just because its new dosent mean its reliable, I had a few failure to feed issues w/ that mag, so I threw it in the trash. Also dont shoot 3 gun w/ cheap steel ammo, not that it was unreliable, its just that is was very inaccurate, I wasted about 15 rounds trying to hit a 100 yard target that was about 12-15 inches around.
I will say this, if your gas tube breaks, you can still run your AR, just cycle your rifle with the charging handle... Not sure if you could do that with a AK.

 

[Shemp]

Mean rounds to failure... Hell, I have no idea. I have AT LEST 10,000 through my rifle, probably closer to 15,000 rounds. I can only remember a hand full of failures, mainly because I run my rifle's BCG "wet". I do remember going to a 3 gun comp. and loading a brand new, I just took it out of the plastic, AR mag... Just because its new dosent mean its reliable, I had a few failure to feed issues w/ that mag, so I threw it in the trash. Also dont shoot 3 gun w/ cheap steel ammo, not that it was unreliable, its just that is was very inaccurate, I wasted about 15 rounds trying to hit a 100 yard target that was about 12-15 inches around.
I will say this, if your gas tube breaks, you can still run your AR, just cycle your rifle with the charging handle... Not sure if you could do that with a AK.

Well there's no gas tube on an AK....as long as the piston is still attached to the bolt carrier it will shoot. Not ideal to shoot with no top cover or "gas tube" but it'll run.

 

[Shemp]

Mean rounds to failure... Hell, I have no idea. I have AT LEST 10,000 through my rifle, probably closer to 15,000 rounds. I can only remember a hand full of failures, mainly because I run my rifle's BCG "wet". I do remember going to a 3 gun comp. and loading a brand new, I just took it out of the plastic, AR mag... Just because its new dosent mean its reliable, I had a few failure to feed issues w/ that mag, so I threw it in the trash. Also dont shoot 3 gun w/ cheap steel ammo, not that it was unreliable, its just that is was very inaccurate, I wasted about 15 rounds trying to hit a 100 yard target that was about 12-15 inches around.
I will say this, if your gas tube breaks, you can still run your AR, just cycle your rifle with the charging handle... Not sure if you could do that with a AK.

 

[EugenFJR]

Then again, you can build a AK out of a shovel...

 

[Shemp]

Then again, you can build a AK out of a shovel...