So what all did Obama do to fuck us this time?

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Shemp

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There is some gray, but it seems pretty straightforward.
If you are liquidating a collection..ok
If you sell last years model rifle to fund the purchase of this years model..ok
If you occasionally sell some guns out of your collection..ok

If you advertise as a buyer and seller of firearms and purchase with intention of selling..not ok
If you purchase regularly with the intent of profiting from your sales...not ok.

Yeah it's murky, but it's not that different than it was before. Just don't load up gunbroker with 20 AR's after a shooting looking to cash in on the hype.

Use your head. Stay legal and stay off of the radar. I have a feeling that people will know when they are breaking the law.

Hell, this is an anti-flipper law...the ODT should be loving it. lol

Well that's fine and dandy...but the new guidelines are pretty vague. It even says so within them, that there is no set number of guns that needs to be sold, for profit or not, if other evidence is present.

I'll err on the side of caution. I have lost money on my gun dealings, at best I come out even. but I do trade a lot as I get bored kinda fast.
 

Laufen

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how are you benefiting from it?

this has cost everyone in aggregate an insane amount. so unless you work for an insurance company, pharm company, medical provider, or some rgeasy 3rd party interloper involved with our "healthcare" system there is no way you profited
I didn't profit, I benefited. I'm self-employed, and insurance was much cheaper for me through the exchange.
 

Thenut

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I've already been through that, and yeah it sucks and it's expensive. The law enforcement officers were in the wrong by charging me, but the law revealed my innocence, and I'm grateful for that. There'll always be ignorance in enforcement, I just hope that laws are clearly enough defined to prevent innocent people from being found guilty. That's why this law scares me. It's a lot more ambiguous than it should be considering the consequences for breaking it.
or simply too many laws exist as is.
 
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Laufen

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Well that's fine and dandy...but the new guidelines are pretty vague. It even says so within them, that there is no set number of guns that needs to be sold, for profit or not, if other evidence is present.

I'll err on the side of caution. I have lost money on my gun dealings, at best I come out even. but I do trade a lot as I get bored kinda fast.
I agree 100%
 

Laufen

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or simply too many laws exist as is.
That is exactly why I was charged....so many laws that officers had a hard time understanding how they all worked together.
 

Thenut

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I didn't profit, I benefited. I'm self-employed, and insurance was much cheaper for me through the exchange.
the hell it is

costs have gone up across the board. even with the subsidies the price has still increased and puts a strain on the shared pool of resources. you will soon see a death spiral in the exchange as insurers drop out to maximize profit, leaving only the sickest and poorest people int he exchange and the healthy/capital heavy people will be taxed out the fuckin ass for it

you are telling me that you are paying less now than you were before? how is that even possible?
 

Bypass

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the hell it is

costs have gone up across the board. even with the subsidies the price has still increased and puts a strain on the shared pool of resources. you will soon see a death spiral in the exchange as insurers drop out to maximize profit, leaving only the sickest and poorest people int he exchange and the healthy/capital heavy people will be taxed out the fuckin ass for it

you are telling me that you are paying less now than you were before? how is that even possible?
I had this liberal self employed friend in Idaho say the same thing (key word being HAD) Her health care is cheaper now.
 
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Thenut

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Cool, except you are having the government loot 50 others to get that lower cost
it actually is bad for everyone, even the recipient of social welfare

it increases costs in aggregate and creates dead weight loss to society by artificially creating a more inelastic demand
 

Thenut

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this kinda shows partially what happens

DWL-of-a-Subsidy.png
 

Laufen

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Cool, except you are having the government loot 50 others to get that lower cost
Maybe, maybe not. I think the insurance business is a racket that pretty much fucks us all equally. I've been on both sides, I guess I don't feel that morally obligated to take an extra ass reaming just to join the ranks of the "more screwed".
 
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Thenut

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Maybe, maybe not. I think the insurance business is a racket that pretty much fucks us all equally. I've been on both sides, I guess I don't feel that morally obligated to take an extra ass reaming just to join the ranks of the "more screwed".
agreed about insurance being a racket

thats why insurance should have been beheaded and used only for catasptroihc injuries

instead the ACA made insurance an even more integral part of the healthcare process, by making standard requirements and things such as prescription pills included

health insurance should be set up as a tontine or some version of life insurance, not this year by year bullshit where you can get dropped for any reason
 
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Thenut

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if i took the time i could possibly surmise that insane photo into one action. as all actions have a + and - component, it is simply as matter of lining them up in a linear fashion and awarding a point to the "winner"

but in order to do that you must assume the information is accurate and transparent
 

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I've already been through that, and yeah it sucks and it's expensive. The law enforcement officers were in the wrong by charging me, but the law revealed my innocence, and I'm grateful for that. There'll always be ignorance in enforcement, I just hope that laws are clearly enough defined to prevent innocent people from being found guilty. That's why this law scares me. It's a lot more ambiguous than it should be considering the consequences for breaking it.
I don't know what your situation was about. But in this case, the regime will be looking to make examples. The person I referred to earlier was investigated for selling a handful of lowers over a period of a couple of years. That's not a lot, by any means. He went through 2 weeks of hell. For doing nothing wrong and exercising his rights as an American. Think about that for a minute. It doesn't really matter that it all worked out. It's equivalent to harassment of gun owners, by the federal government and a borderline abuse of his rights. To hell with that!

Now, they are being granted broader powers to pursue anyone they perceive to be a dealer. I won't be surprised if we see arrests made during the next panic, when guys who've been buying cheap lowers start unloading them when prices skyrocket. It's easy to say, "just don't break the law". But in this case, the "law" is extremely vague and left solely to the ATF and DOJ to interpret. Sure, someone could hope they have good representation. But if it had to go through appeals, most people cannot afford a long protracted court case. And I wouldn't plan on the NRA picking up the bill. A case like that could damage your career and cause irreparable, irreversible financial harm. The vague nature of the rules, scare the crap out of me. To me, they represent the first step to banning private sales altogether. Make everyone a potential criminal and gun confiscation isn't too many years behind. The gun lobby talks about sweeping, dramatic change, but they are playing the long game right under our noses.

This won't deter me from selling and trading as I always have. But, I don't think I'll be selling stuff at 3x value during the next panic either.
 
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Laufen

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I don't know what your situation was about. But in this case, the regime will be looking to make examples. The person I referred to earlier was investigated for selling a handful of lowers over a period of a couple of years. That's not a lot, by any means. He went through 2 weeks of hell. For doing nothing wrong and exercising his rights as an American. Think about that for a minute. It doesn't really matter that it all worked out. It's equivalent to harassment of gun owners, by the federal government and a borderline abuse of his rights. To hell with that!

Now, they are being granted broader powers to pursue anyone they perceive to be a dealer. I won't be surprised if we see arrests made during the next panic, when guys who've been buying cheap lowers start unloading them when prices skyrocket. It's easy to say, "just don't break the law". But in this case, the "law" is extremely vague and left solely to the ATF and DOJ to interpret. Sure, someone could hope they have good representation. But if it had to go through appeals, most people cannot afford a long protracted court case. And I wouldn't plan on the NRA picking up the bill. A case like that could damage your career and cause irreparable, irreversible financial harm. The vague nature of the rules, scare the crap out of me. To me, they represent the first step to banning private sales altogether. Make everyone a potential criminal and gun confiscation isn't too many years behind. The gun lobby talks about sweeping, dramatic change, but they are playing the long game right under our noses.

This won't deter me from selling and trading as I always have. But, I don't think I'll be selling stuff at 3x value during the next panic either.
Yeah, my situation was a lot more drawn out, and a bit more serious.

If you're doing this, you know you're breaking the law----> "when guys who've been buying cheap lowers start unloading them when prices skyrocket"

If I see a rattlesnake on the sidewalk I'm not going to see how close I can walk to it before it strikes. I'll just go waaay around.
 

Shemp

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Yeah, my situation was a lot more drawn out, and a bit more serious.

If you're doing this, you know you're breaking the law----> "when guys who've been buying cheap lowers start unloading them when prices skyrocket"

If I see a rattlesnake on the sidewalk I'm not going to see how close I can walk to it before it strikes. I'll just go waaay around.

pussy. I bet you don't even listen to FL/GA Line
 
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