Public toilets?

[Laufen]

And for that matter....what "is" it, exactly?

I confess to being functionally learning-disabled when it comes to the topic and I have at times tried to understand it a little better but everytime I start digging, I find myself lost in a sea of terms that I don't understand, verbs that don't make sense, and laundry lists of acronyms and jingoistic buzzwords that make my head spin. I get that it's a vague indicator of the health of the economy, or something like that......but what exactly is it and why does it make people go so crazy? I put in twice what my company matches in my X0X(x) plan and that's about the extent of my particpation, interest, and mastery.

Laymen's term, people. Laymen's terms.

Dip your toes in a little. Go to youtube and watch a few videos on stock market indicators. MACD, stochastics, whatever and familiarize yourself with the basics of stocks and etf's. Then go to Etrade and open an account. Put a little cash in to play around with a bit. Since we're experiencing a temporary bear market, research which etf's or stocks will perform well when everything else is taking a dive. Grow your fund a little, and when we begin to bottom out, sell out and re-invest that cash in companies with strong portfolios that have taken a beating along with those deserving of the beating. Proceed to ride the wave back up. Rinse and repeat.
You can be a trader by 9 pm, and have a good enough working knowledge to be as successful as the average pro. A lack of emotional attachment helps a lot, and by investing small sums, you can preserve that a bit.

 

[Laufen]

What does that mean? I hear it all the time, "making money in a down market." How? You sell it and then buy it back after it falls? If that's the case, though, aren't you precipitating the fall yourself? And doesn't that make the whole thing artificial?

There are etf's that gain value as the stock market (Dow, whatever) falls. The FAZ etf goes up three times the amount the DOW drops..badass right?!

From WIki
An inverse exchange-traded fund is an exchange-traded fund (ETF), traded on a public stock market, which is designed to perform as the inverse of whatever index or benchmark it is designed to track. These funds work by using short selling, trading derivatives such as futures contracts, and other leveraged investment techniques.

By providing, over short investing horizons and excluding the impact of fees and other costs, performance opposite to their benchmark, inverse ETFs give a result similar to short selling the stocks in the index. An inverse S&P 500 ETF, for example, seeks a daily percentage movement opposite that of the S&P. If the S&P 500 rises by 1%, the inverse ETF is designed to fall by 1%; and if the S&P falls by 1%, the inverse ETF should rise by 1%. Because their value rises in a declining market environment, they are popular investments in bear markets.[1]

Short sales have the potential to expose an investor to unlimited losses, whether or not the sale involves a stock or ETF. An inverse ETF, on the other hand, provides many of the same benefits as shorting, yet it exposes an investor only to the loss of the purchase price. Another advantage of inverse ETFs is that they may be held in IRA accounts, while short sales are not permitted in these accounts.

 

[DoglegArms]

I just invested a small sum of money last Thursday, and I'm up over 31% on that investment after today's move. All it takes is a very small amount of time, some luck, and a little initiative and you can hedge against big dips in the market. When big swings happen, you can make money all the way down and all the way up. It's a lot more fun than a steady bull market imo.

Care to share your portfolio?

 

[Laufen]

Care to share your portfolio?

I put a small amount of money into a single etf. FAZ is the ticker symbol. I wish I had put more in, but's that's hindsight. She's been on fire. I use these markets for home run swings, not long term retirement investing. This is where I want to go for broke and try to make some decent cash in a fairly short amount of time off of a small investment.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Dip your toes in a little. Go to youtube and watch a few videos on stock market indicators. MACD, stochastics, whatever and familiarize yourself with the basics of stocks and etf's. Then go to Etrade and open an account. Put a little cash in to play around with a bit. Since we're experiencing a temporary bear market, research which etf's or stocks will perform well when everything else is taking a dive. Grow your fund a little, and when we begin to bottom out, sell out and re-invest that cash in companies with strong portfolios that have taken a beating along with those deserving of the beating. Proceed to ride the wave back up. Rinse and repeat.
You can be a trader by 9 pm, and have a good enough working knowledge to be as successful as the average pro. A lack of emotional attachment helps a lot, and by investing small sums, you can preserve that a bit.

I think I understand this, but again, all those terms....I confess to being completely ignorant as to what they mean.

Sidebar; I wonder if people feel like this when I wax theological. Note to self, maybe..,

 

[rOmiLaYu]

There are etf's that gain value as the stock market (Dow, whatever) falls. The FAZ etf goes up three times the amount the DOW drops..badass right?!

From WIki
An inverse exchange-traded fund is an exchange-traded fund (ETF), traded on a public stock market, which is designed to perform as the inverse of whatever index or benchmark it is designed to track. These funds work by using short selling, trading derivatives such as futures contracts, and other leveraged investment techniques.

By providing, over short investing horizons and excluding the impact of fees and other costs, performance opposite to their benchmark, inverse ETFs give a result similar to short selling the stocks in the index. An inverse S&P 500 ETF, for example, seeks a daily percentage movement opposite that of the S&P. If the S&P 500 rises by 1%, the inverse ETF is designed to fall by 1%; and if the S&P falls by 1%, the inverse ETF should rise by 1%. Because their value rises in a declining market environment, they are popular investments in bear markets.[1]

Short sales have the potential to expose an investor to unlimited losses, whether or not the sale involves a stock or ETF. An inverse ETF, on the other hand, provides many of the same benefits as shorting, yet it exposes an investor only to the loss of the purchase price. Another advantage of inverse ETFs is that they may be held in IRA accounts, while short sales are not permitted in these accounts.

Ok, but isn't short selling a self consuming conflagration? Doesn't it show that the market is fixed to a certain degree?

 

[Laufen]

I think I understand this, but again, all those terms....I confess to being completely ignorant as to what they mean.

Sidebar; I wonder if people feel like this when I wax theological. Note to self, maybe..,

THe stick market allows you to bet on anything. You can even bet on how nervous investors are feeling with the VIX (volatility index). You can buy shares of well known companies, collections of shares, or exchange traded funds to name a few. When all indicators pointed to a big sell off (the 50 day moving average and 200 day moving average crossed) I bought in. The market indicated that it was going to move into correction mode. Knowing that, I purchased etf's that go up in value as the DOW goes down in value.

 

[Laufen]

Ok, but isn't short selling a self consuming conflagration? Doesn't it show that the market is fixed to a certain degree?

No, yes, kind of, not really? It's no different than buying stock and banking that it will increase in value. With inverse etf's your buying a stock betting that it will increase in value because you feel that the stock market is in a sell off.
It's not that it's fixed, but it does behave like a living organism. That's another topic.

 

[PewPewPewCo]

The stock market is for 2 people, suckers and insiders, if your not one, your the other...

funny thing about that...

I have a friend who is Saudi and obviously very rich. His family is insanely connected. We started talking stocks one day. About a week later he sends me a text that says "XYZ you know what to do", I google up what the "XYZ" is, and its a stock ticker symbol. It's a penny stock, so I don't want to risk it, but sure enough it is up 100% by the end of the day.

I think damn I missed it. He texts me again and says, "the real rally is tomorrow". I think to myself, "sure whatever, i missed the wave and hes getting greedy and going to suffer for it probably". Well, the next day it went up another amount, leading to 800% growth in only two days.

So yea, insiders can freaking kill it, and if he ever texts me again I will certainly give it more thought. And to be clear, he never indicated any insider trading to me. While hindsight seems to indicate that he knew something, I did not and had no articulable reason which would put me on notification that he was insider trading.

 

[Laufen]

Ok, but isn't short selling a self consuming conflagration? Doesn't it show that the market is fixed to a certain degree?

Right at the red circle the 50 and 200 day moving averages crossed, this is known as the cross of death. This is what prompted my purchase of the inverse etfs. I wasn't 100% certain the dow would take a nosedive, but it was sure telling me the time was ripe for it. Previous to the cross, there was growth and stability, but growth comes with a price. Take a look at the weakness creep in and take hold almost immediately after.
Some basic knowledge of charting is all you need to get started.

 

[DoglegArms]

I put a small amount of money into a single etf. FAZ is the ticker symbol. I wish I had put more in, but's that's hindsight. She's been on fire. I use these markets for home run swings, not long term retirement investing. This is where I want to go for broke and try to make some decent cash in a fairly short amount of time off of a small investment.

Nice. It has been doing well. How long are you going to hold on to it?

 

[Hoss]

funny thing about that...

I have a friend who is Saudi and obviously very rich. His family is insanely connected. We started talking stocks one day. About a week later he sends me a text that says "XYZ you know what to do", I google up what the "XYZ" is, and its a stock ticker symbol. It's a penny stock, so I don't want to risk it, but sure enough it is up 100% by the end of the day.

I think damn I missed it. He texts me again and says, "the real rally is tomorrow". I think to myself, "sure whatever, i missed the wave and hes getting greedy and going to suffer for it probably". Well, the next day it went up another amount, leading to 800% growth in only two days.

So yea, insiders can freaking kill it, and if he ever texts me again I will certainly give it more thought. And to be clear, he never indicated any insider trading to me. While hindsight seems to indicate that he knew something, I did not and had no articulable reason which would put me on notification that he was insider trading.

Yeah, whenever I text you to come get your mom you ignore me too.

 

[karlvv]

Inverse etf's were created so the same people that manipulate the market have a way to make money in any market condition. It's lunacy and does nothing for the greater good. There are a few lucky ones. Most will wake up in a week and wonder where their retirement money went. The system is rigged. If you play the game you can do well. Most don't even know that the game is on.

 

[Laufen]

Nice. It has been doing well. How long are you going to hold on to it?

The market will indicate that.

 

[Laufen]

Inverse etf's were created so the same people that manipulate the market have a way to make money in any market condition. It's lunacy and does nothing for the greater good. There are a few lucky ones. Most will wake up in a week and wonder where their retirement money went. The system is rigged. If you play the game you can do well. Most don't even know that the game is on.

I couldn't possibly care less about the socialist principle of the "greater good" when it comes to my private investing strategy.

 

[karlvv]

I couldn't possibly care less about the socialist principle of the "greater good" when it comes to my private investing strategy.

Of course. No one does and that is why we get what we have. When it all implodes, and it will, it will be easy to see why.

 

[Laufen]

Of course. No one does and that is why we get what we have. When it all implodes, and it will, it will be easy to see why.

If that were the case we'd never have ever seen a rally. How many investors are out there trading stocks for the good of humanity? lol

I'm using every tool at my disposal. At certain times, inverse etf's are the heavy hitters. Long term they aren't. That's why you need a lot of weapons in the arsenal.

 

[karlvv]

If that were the case we'd never have ever seen a rally. How many investors are out there trading stocks for the good of humanity? lol

I'm using every tool at my disposal. At certain times, inverse etf's are the heavy hitters. Long term they aren't. That's why you need a lot of weapons in the arsenal.

I just think there is a lack of morality in the making of money. That only leads one direction. Infinite growth is an impossible myth and soon people will have to figure that out.

 

[Dixietoolz]

The way I see it you basically give someone your hard earned money so they can play with it. If they make money they get paid and if you lose money they get paid. The only one taking a risk is you. I lost 8K this past Thursday and Friday before I could get the bulk of it moved into a safer fund. If I hadnt moved it I would have lost approximately another 5K today.

 

[Laufen]

I just think there is a lack of morality in the making of money. That only leads one direction. Infinite growth is an impossible myth and soon people will have to figure that out.

I don't believe in universal morality, and I don't believe you can force people to take into account the good of the people of earth when it comes to investing. I think you've ventured out beyond the financial to the philosophical...to a point where we probably agree.