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Bull's-Eye
Join: Jan 2005
Posts: 1377
Medicine Hat, Canada
Apr 04, 2005 · #1
Chambering Problems
Hello everyone. I was out shooting yesterday and with my buttler Creek 25rd steel lips and hotlips the rounds had a hard time chambering. When I insert the magazine, pull the bolt back and let it snap shut, the round only enters the camber a few centimeters(the lead bullet enters and the bolt remains half open). And on the occasion when it does enter the chamber, I would pull the trigger and it would go CLICK. Checked the round for a pinstrike and there was nothing, it was like the bolt didn't shut all the way. However, when I switched to the factory magazine NO PROBLEMS at all. I recently put in a VQ edge extractor, could this be the problem? Never experienced this problem before with my factory extractor. Any suggestions? Thanks
Robert1980
Join: Mar 2005
Posts: 468
Indianapolis, Indiana
Apr 04, 2005 · #2
I have 2 butler creek hot lips and they are junk! Every time I try to use them I have all sorts of jams and feeding problems. I just gave up on them. Like you when I put my factory mags in the problem goes away. I also have a Volquartsen extractor but I really don't see that causing a problem.
Markbo
Join: Mar 2003
Posts: 10685
Houston
Apr 04, 2005 · #3
I have to agree... with hotlips magazines it won't work... with factory magazine no problems... I think you already answered your own question!
gmcfixer
Join: Aug 2002
Posts: 3732
St. Petersburg, Florida
Apr 04, 2005 · #4
Dump the aftermarket mags! They are your problem.
Dave Z.
Dakotan
Join: Mar 2002
Posts: 1041
South Dakota
Apr 04, 2005 · #5
I had that same problem yesterday with a new build. I expected most of the problems encountered, since this was a new gun with 20 rounds through it, and the BC Hi-Cap mags were fresh out of the packages.
I think it will be a LOT better once this EXTREMELY tight new action, and the Hot Lips Magazines are broken in!
Evereything ran nicely (no the BC Hi-Caps aren't junk; ran like champs ), then the problems started after about 100 rounds; mostly FTEs, and stovepipes.
I substituted the new factory BX-1 mag that came with the gun, and had the same problems encountered with the hi caps.
I ran a dry patch through the barrel, but naturally I had forgotten to bring any lube with me. DUH!
New actions need lots of lube! It ran pretty well after I cleaned the barrel and chamber but was acting up after another 50 rounds.
It all traced back to insufficient lubrication of what is probably the single tightest 10/22 action I've ever owned!
This gun has a heavily modified "experimental" factory barrel I built (I might tell you more someday! ) with a standard (but polished) Sporter chamber, and it got dry enough to completely stop extraction, even with a VQ Extractor installed! New one on me! You could barely even push a round in by hand; VERY tight!
I came home and pulled a lubed patch through it and dropped a round in by hand, which dropped right out when I tilted the muzzle upward!
Give the new guns and/or new Hi-Caps enough time to break in before giving up on them! The first 3 BC 25 rounders rattled off all 75 rounds with 3 stoppages on a brand new gun. I don't consider that too bad! And I know from experience it will only get better!
NOW.... if you're trying to use Hi-Caps with a Bentz-Chambered barrel you're going to have problems! If not, you are the exception and NOT the rule. Stay with the factory mags for this.
FWIW! - Dakotan
Post Edited
Last edited by Dakotan - Apr 04, 2005
Markbo
Join: Mar 2003
Posts: 10685
Houston
Apr 04, 2005 · #6
No Way!
You can NOT come in here and drop a heavily modified "experimental" factory barrel on us and expect us to sit idly by and wait for you to tell us about it... some day!!!!
You had to know we were going to demand more information!
So give!
Bradandhis10/22
Join: Jan 2005
Posts: 291
Chico CA
Apr 04, 2005 · #7
Dakotan said:
This gun has a heavily modified "experimental" factory barrel I built
Now now, you know we need details.
Dakotan
Join: Mar 2002
Posts: 1041
South Dakota
Apr 04, 2005 · #8
Hmmm... maybe Heavily Modified wasn't quite the right description, but I can tell you that I've never seen another one like it!
Geeze guys, let me see how well it actually shoots first!
I gotta learn to shut up!
- Dakotan
Post Edited
Last edited by Dakotan - Apr 04, 2005
Robert1980
Join: Mar 2005
Posts: 468
Indianapolis, Indiana
Apr 04, 2005 · #9
Why does the Bentz chamber create so many problems with BC hi-caps? That must be what my problem is as I have a Butler Creek barrel with the Bentz chamber. This is the only gun I have ever used these mags on so I can only speak from the limited experience I have, maybe I was a little hasty in calling them junk. I just know they aren't worth much to me, I can't get but 3 or 4 shots off without having a jam. Go back to factory mags and the gun functions flawlessly.
Bull's-Eye
Join: Jan 2005
Posts: 1377
Medicine Hat, Canada
Apr 04, 2005 · #10
Yup. The barrel I'm using does have a Bentz-chamber. Anyone know why this affect feeding from hi-cap mags? Thank you everyone for your insight.
gmcfixer
Join: Aug 2002
Posts: 3732
St. Petersburg, Florida
Apr 05, 2005 · #11
Bull's-Eye said:
Yup. The barrel I'm using does have a Bentz-chamber. Anyone know why this affect feeding from hi-cap mags? Thank you everyone for your insight.
I'll have to defer to Dakotan on the use of aftermarket mags on sporter chambered 10/22s. But as to a reason for them being more of a problem on a bentz chambered barrel, makes perfect sense to me. The tighter bentz chamber requires more control over the way the cartridge comes out of the magazine and into the barrel. I learned many years back on 1911 pistols that you have to understand the process of the cartirdge leaving the magazine and entering the chamber is real not a smooth transision. Some would describe it as bouncing in, when the bolt (or slide) comes forward the front of the cartirdge pops up and then when the magazines releases the rear of the cartridge it too pops up into place. Just as with the 1911, the 10/22 and almost every semi-auto firearm this is true so a tighter chamber requires better control over the way the cartridge bounces out of the magazine and into the chamber. Or at least it makes sense to me.
Dave Z.
Edited to add: I might have put 100 rounds through a sporter chambered 10/22 in the past 10 years and thats with factory mags, so once again I will defer to those who have used them with sporter chambers on how well they work there.
Post Edited
Last edited by gmcfixer - Apr 05, 2005
Dakotan
Join: Mar 2002
Posts: 1041
South Dakota
Apr 05, 2005 · #12
gmcfixer said:
But as to a reason for them being more of a problem on a bentz chambered barrel, makes perfect sense to me. The tighter bentz chamber requires more control over the way the cartridge comes out of the magazine and into the barrel. I learned many years back on 1911 pistols that you have to understand the process of the cartirdge leaving the magazine and entering the chamber is real not a smooth transision. Some would describe it as bouncing in, when the bolt (or slide) comes forward the front of the cartirdge pops up and then when the magazines releases the rear of the cartridge it too pops up into place. Just as with the 1911, the 10/22 and almost every semi-auto firearm this is true so a tighter chamber requires better control over the way the cartridge bounces out of the magazine and into the chamber. Or at least it makes sense to me.
Dave Z.
Edited to add: I might have put 100 rounds through a sporter chambered 10/22 in the past 10 years and thats with factory mags, so once again I will defer to those who have used them with sporter chambers on how well they work there.
You pretty much hit it right on the head, Dave! Different gun, but the same basic dynamics.
It's been a LONG time since I played with a factory barrel too, but I'm building this gun in the "EBR" style (what the heck, might as well have one before the next BAN hits ), but the real project behind it is to see what it takes to get a 10/22 90% + reliable with BC hi-cap mags.
That being said, there is one inescapable fact; RUGER BX-1 MAGS WORK BEST! They feed best and straightest, they eject best (compared to the secondary ejector), and they're adjustable and therefore tuneable!
That being said, the 25 round BC mags just "go" better with this type of gun, and are a blast (pun intended ) to shoot with!
Just when I thought I was out of interest in this stuff, it drags me back in!
Building this gun, I've been finding some very interesting things dealing with everything from Extractor tension vs. Magazine Spring tension during feeding, to chamber opening configuration, to Lubrication needs, to ammunition selection (Stingers are good), among other things.
Now about the Bentz chamber "thing"; even though the Bentz chamber is "only" .0037” smaller than the Sporting chamber's Mouth Diameter, and .0015” smaller than the Sporting chamber's Throat Diameter, this seems to create a problem, nonetheless.
BUT, there's ALSO a .0851” difference in Bentz to Sporting Chamber Length which can really create problems when the rounds are not feeding in as straightly as they do from a BX-1 magazine! Therefore the Sporting chambers work best with Hi-Caps just because they're just a touch more forgiving than Bentz chambers, which seems to be all it takes sometimes.
Then there's the gun to gun manufacturing dimensional variations inherent in the 10/22's production. For instance, the chamber on my experimental barrel is really tight for a Sporter, and other factory barrels I've had let the cartridge rattle around in the chamber! These guns were never made to be "tweaked" to the levels some of us do.... myself included! Anybody who's really had to work one over to get it feeding, functioning, shooting accurately, and staying that way can attest to this!
Well the hi-cap thing is the same game with a bunch of new twists! "
