Mossberg suing drop-in trigger companies

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Laufen

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If it were just one company I could see it being an issue of them not wanting to pay, but 12 companies at one time either they have been very lenient or they are just going full retard now. I will wait for more info to come available before I totally write them off though.
When it was one or two companies it may not have made sense for them to file a suit. They may have sent out notices to the companies asking for a license. As more and more companies jump into the trigger game, using their IP to make money, the stakes get higher. I kind of have a feeling this is what happened, just look at all of the new(ish) companies in the trigger business now.
Mossberg purchased this patent in 2011.
 
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AtlMedic

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Just found this, seems to give some additional clarification and history. Seems that their patent is specific to using the two existing pin holes to hold the trigger assembly in place, not just it being a drop in trigger.

Also looks like they had someone ask for clarification on their patent a few times over the last 4 or so years, that may have something to do with the the current law suit.

I cant help but wonder if they did not really care too much but one company took it too far so now they are having to sue a bunch of companies instead of the one that pissed them off.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...5-triggers-proof-they-date-back-to-the-1990s/
 

Laufen

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Just found this, seems to give some additional clarification and history. Seems that their patent is specific to using the two existing pin holes to hold the trigger assembly in place, not just it being a drop in trigger.

Also looks like they had someone ask for clarification on their patent a few times over the last 4 or so years, that may have something to do with the the current law suit.

I cant help but wonder if they did not really care too much but one company took it too far so now they are having to sue a bunch of companies instead of the one that pissed them off.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...5-triggers-proof-they-date-back-to-the-1990s/
Yep, you have to infringe upon the entire patent and do so in the very specific way spelled out in the claim for it to be infringement. This is why I don't have much sympathy for the companies getting sued, they took the lazy way out, didn't create their own design, and stole an idea from someone else.
 

dougiemac

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That's some bullshit right there. I'll go ahead and add Mossberg and CMC to products I won't support anymore

Slow down there dudes... let's look at the facts.
  • Chip McCormick and Jack Biegel (engineer) invented and patented the drop in trigger (http://www.google.com/patents/US7162824).
  • Chip sold the company to Jack.
  • Jack owns CMC Triggers.
  • The patent for the drop in trigger was sold to Mossberg.
  • Mossberg licenses that patent to CMC Triggers.
  • The companies mentioned in the law suit have blatantly violated that patent.
  • In turn, Mossberg files a patent infringement lawsuit against said companies.
So it would be like @chance and @PewPewPewCo invented a gizmo and protected it with a patent, then sold the patent to me.
Then along came @Laufen, @Hayata, and @Wallace who decided to rip @chance and @PewPewPewCo's invention off and do their own.
Since they didn't call me up and say "we'd like to license the drop-in trigger from you Doug", and decided to turn their nose on my patent and in a sense say "eat a bag of dicks", I call up @heavyd and file suit against them for lost revenue.
 

dougiemac

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As a secondary note.... CMC Triggers (which is a great trigger and an awesome company with great people) own the patent on the flat trigger too.
 

Laufen

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Slow down there dudes... let's look at the facts.
  • Chip McCormick and Jack Biegel (engineer) invented and patented the drop in trigger (http://www.google.com/patents/US7162824).
  • Chip sold the company to Jack.
  • Jack owns CMC Triggers.
  • The patent for the drop in trigger was sold to Mossberg.
  • Mossberg licenses that patent to CMC Triggers.
  • The companies mentioned in the law suit have blatantly violated that patent.
  • In turn, Mossberg files a patent infringement lawsuit against said companies.
So it would be like @chance and @PewPewPewCo invented a gizmo and protected it with a patent, then sold the patent to me.
Then along came @Laufen, @Hayata, and @Wallace who decided to rip @chance and @PewPewPewCo's invention off and do their own.
Since they didn't call me up and say "we'd like to license the drop-in trigger from you Doug", and decided to turn their nose on my patent and in a sense say "eat a bag of dicks", I call up @heavyd and file suit against them for lost revenue.
Yes, exactly, except a patent will not provide protection, but a legal right to take action against infringers. On their own, they provide zero protection against infringement (as Mossberg discovered).
 
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Laufen

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I've talked to quite a few friends with ideas and inventions that are looking for patent (protection) for their ideas. Here are a few things about the patenting system that you may not know that will illuminate this story a bit more.

Usually, these details open some eyes on the process.

1. Getting a patent is expensive, usually $10k-$20k on the low end, up to the stratosphere depending on your patent attorney.

2. Writing patents is an art. They aren't all created the same and effectiveness varies because of this...as does price.

3. It takes a long time to get a patent approved. Think waiting for that new suppressor takes along time? Add 6 months to 2-3 years to that for a patent.

4. Once you have the patent, you have to continue to pay to keep it active..that's right, you pay maintenance fees of thousands of dollars (depending on your company size), just to keep that patent viable, the same one that you just paid tens of thousands for, and waited years to see approved.

5. The patent does nothing for you unless you have the $$$ to enforce it when someone infringes upon it.


Considering these variables, it's hard to fault Mossberg for bristling when their intellectual property is ripped off.
 
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Jake

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I really hate to say this, but I'm with @Laufen on this one.


Okay I feel dirty now. I'm gonna go take a shower.
 
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Jake

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Everyone comes around eventually.

Nah, I just know enough about patents to agree with you on this particular matter. I'm no expert but someone in my immediate family holds a patent so they taught me a lot just from talking with them while they were going through the process.
 

chance

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Im just wondering why they would wait so long to go after companies for patent infringement. These drop in trigger assemblies have been around for years.

You would think they would make an example out of the first person to copy the idea, to warn off others.
 

PewPewPewCo

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Im just wondering why they would wait so long to go after companies for patent infringement. These drop in trigger assemblies have been around for years.

You would think they would make an example out of the first person to copy the idea, to warn off others.
Mossberg bought the brand and is suing. They have the money to spend, IP lawsuits are expensive as hell.
 

Hayata

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Slow down there dudes... let's look at the facts.

So it would be like @chance and @PewPewPewCo invented a gizmo and protected it with a patent, then sold the patent to me.
Then along came @Laufen, @Hayata, and @Wallace who decided to rip @chance and @PewPewPewCo's invention off and do their own.
Since they didn't call me up and say "we'd like to license the drop-in trigger from you Doug", and decided to turn their nose on my patent and in a sense say "eat a bag of dicks", I call up @heavyd and file suit against them for lost revenue.


Yeah, but mine are better.

And I left you voice mails...
 
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Jake

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Im just wondering why they would wait so long to go after companies for patent infringement. These drop in trigger assemblies have been around for years.

You would think they would make an example out of the first person to copy the idea, to warn off others.

My guess is that they had the mentality of, why sue one company for $100,000 (just for example), when we can sue 15 companies for $100,000. They were probably just sitting back in the shadows waiting for their chance to strike.
 

dougiemac

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Nah, I just know enough about patents to agree with you on this particular matter. I'm no expert but someone in my immediate family holds a patent so they taught me a lot just from talking with them while they were going through the process.


You're with me too then.
 

dougiemac

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My guess is that they had the mentality of, why sue one company for $100,000 (just for example), when we can sue 15 companies for $100,000. They were probably just sitting back in the shadows waiting for their chance to strike.
If it were just one company I could see it being an issue of them not wanting to pay, but 12 companies at one time either they have been very lenient or they are just going full retard now. I will wait for more info to come available before I totally write them off though.


Maybe because they've been trying to work out a licensing agreement and after years of negotiating, or years of being rejected, mossberg finally did what anyone would do that owned the patent or trademark or copyright on something and go after those that infringed upon it.
 
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Jake

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Maybe because they've been trying to work out a licensing agreement and after years of negotiating, or years of being rejected, mossberg finally did what anyone would do that owned the patent or trademark or copyright on something and go after those that infringed upon it.

That's a very good possibility.
 

Laufen

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Im just wondering why they would wait so long to go after companies for patent infringement. These drop in trigger assemblies have been around for years.

You would think they would make an example out of the first person to copy the idea, to warn off others.
It's not cost effective, and a patent itself is the "warning".
 

Jake

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You're with me too then.

Yeah, I didn't read far enough when I had posted. I had to admit that I agree with Laufen. Could have just agreed with you. Fuck!
 
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Laufen

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Maybe because they've been trying to work out a licensing agreement and after years of negotiating, or years of being rejected, mossberg finally did what anyone would do that owned the patent or trademark or copyright on something and go after those that infringed upon it.
That's my best guess too.