Is a 9mm upper worth the money?

[The Mechanic]

Carrying all that shit I'll just run your ass over in my truck and steal your shit.

I ain't going to to be walking down the center of 75 to make it easy for ya. You won't be riding anything where I will be.

 

[Leshaire]

Carrying all that shit I'll just run your ass over in my truck and steal your shit.

Prime target lol


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[Leshaire]

Why would anyone run a 5” 5.56? A 10” would make much more sense, and the added length won’t make any difference in CQB.

Sound and flash works both ways, and the majority of both are going AWAY from the shooter, TOWARDS the target, so it’s added shit the threat has to deal with.

Under extreme stress, very little of the noise and flash will be noticed by the shooter to an extent that it will adversely affect them at the time.

Either will work just fine, with the right ammo in each. I wouldn’t feel poorly armed either way for HD. For use outside of the home, a carbine caliber beats a handgun caliber, hands down. Range and penetration.

I can’t agree here. I don’t understand why it’d ever be ok to anyone dealing with that amount of sound and flash just because the bad guy does too. Seems dumb to affect yourself negatively for no real reason. A 5” barrel with 223/556 shoots insane fireballs and will defean tf out of you instantly. Even at 10”, 223/556 is miserable. My 11.5” that you saw me run last time I shot with you is even far from ideal without my can. I’ve shot all of about 3 bullets non suppressed and refuse to do so anymore because of the sound alone.


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[Leshaire]

As a side note, and despite the hollow point failure, since a 45 was used in the tests, there is a hole in the target almost half an inch wide.

Meh, 9mm that expands properly is still wider and also typically faster


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[Leshaire]

Actually, that is a failure of matching a properly constructed projectile to the speed at which it was being fired. A frangible bullet won't expand if fired slowly enough. That and some bullets just are no good.

I think we’re saying the same thing kind of but with different details.


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[Jake]

Too much velocity has also shown a lack of expansion in many many tests.

Yup. The 150gr HST Micro does not do well out of a 5" barrel. I forget who did a video on it but I was saw an extensive test on the 150gr Micro HST on YouTube and the added velocity of the 5" barrel caused them to act like an FMJ and not expand. They did the same test with a Shield and got 100% expansion every single time.

 

[Jake]

As a side note, and despite the hollow point failure, since a 45 was used in the tests, there is a hole in the target almost half an inch wide.

And a 9mm 124gr HST +p expands to .66" and penetrates 18.3" and creates a better temporary and permanent wound cavity, and you get double the capacity in almost all double stack magazines.

 

[Liberty]

And a 9mm 124gr HST +p expands to .66" and penetrates 18.3" and creates a better temporary and permanent wound cavity, and you get double the capacity in almost all double stack magazines.

View attachment 43712

I knew that someone wouldn't be able resist

 

[Axeman]

I can’t agree here. I don’t understand why it’d ever be ok to anyone dealing with that amount of sound and flash just because the bad guy does too. Seems dumb to affect yourself negatively for no real reason. A 5” barrel with 223/556 shoots insane fireballs and will defean tf out of you instantly. Even at 10”, 223/556 is miserable. My 11.5” that you saw me run last time I shot with you is even far from ideal without my can. I’ve shot all of about 3 bullets non suppressed and refuse to do so anymore because of the sound alone.


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You need a better muzzle device and a set of balls. But can you fit them in those skinny jeans?

My 10.5” 5.56 is just fine with the BRT flash suppressor/blast device.
And I agree with @cmshoot about the stress of combat erasing the effects of muzzle blast - of all of us, he’s the most likely to have had the actual experience.

 

[Leshaire]

You need a better muzzle device and a set of balls. But can you fit them in those skinny jeans?

My 10.5” 5.56 is just fine with the BRT flash suppressor/blast device.
And I agree with @cmshoot about the stress of combat erasing the effects of muzzle blast - of all of us, he’s the most likely to have had the actual experience.

Meh it’s a flash hider and it’s all aimed forward, not some ghey brake blowing it back towards me. Now if I had a huge obnoxious muzzle brake on a 223, then you could tell me I have no balls lol...

Also, I wasn’t doubting cmshoots comment about not noticing it as bad. I doubted his logic for still running an obnoxious setup just because it’s equal or worse for whoever is on the receiving end.


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[BangBang]

You sucking his dick or something?

New rule... You need to wear a condom when you post.

@The Mechanic (Greg Vess)

THE JOKERS ARE AT IT AGAIN!!!!

 

[Hoss]

@The Mechanic (Greg Vess)

THE JOKERS ARE AT IT AGAIN!!!!

Nothing but love my friend.

 

[NWS]

Nothing but love my friend.

Slurp slurp slurp

 

[cmshoot]

I can’t agree here. I don’t understand why it’d ever be ok to anyone dealing with that amount of sound and flash just because the bad guy does too. Seems dumb to affect yourself negatively for no real reason. A 5” barrel with 223/556 shoots insane fireballs and will defean tf out of you instantly. Even at 10”, 223/556 is miserable. My 11.5” that you saw me run last time I shot with you is even far from ideal without my can. I’ve shot all of about 3 bullets non suppressed and refuse to do so anymore because of the sound alone.


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For no real reason? There is a HUGE, REAL reason; the ability to punch body armor and penetrate intermediate barriers. A gun that is quiet and comfortable to shoot, but won’t put an armored foe down, is not what I want to use. And, like I said, running a 5” 5.56 would be asinine.

Everything is a trade-off. I require an amount of penetration that a pistol round won’t give me. In order to get that, I have to put up with noise.....or slap a can on it.

Ive been both up and down range, indoors and outdoors, while 5.56 and 7.62x39mm rounds were fired. Big difference when you swap ends of the range.

I never meant it to sound like I said I preferred a loud gun because it’s louder to the bad guy. I didn’t say that and didn’t mean it. I just threw it out there as an ancillary fact.

 

[Jake]

I knew that someone wouldn't be able resist

A 9mM mAy eXpaNd BuT a 45 wiLL nEVeR sHriNk!

 

[Axeman]

For no real reason? There is a HUGE, REAL reason; the ability to punch body armor and penetrate intermediate barriers. A gun that is quiet and comfortable to shoot, but won’t put an armored foe down, is not what I want to use. And, like I said, running a 5” 5.56 would be asinine.

Everything is a trade-off. I require an amount of penetration that a pistol round won’t give me. In order to get that, I have to put up with noise.....or slap a can on it.

Ive been both up and down range, indoors and outdoors, while 5.56 and 7.62x39mm rounds were fired. Big difference when you swap ends of the range.

I never meant it to sound like I said I preferred a loud gun because it’s louder to the bad guy. I didn’t say that and didn’t mean it. I just threw it out there as an ancillary fact.

Yeah, I don’t even know why anyone sells those really short barrels for 5.56, at that point the gas system will be struggling to keep up with it, and the uncorking pressure will be stupid.

As for over-penetration vs under-penetration, I certainly agree that under is far worse.
And this goes right back to the initial point; and now that my purpose for the 9mmP upper has been clarified as not just a range toy, the point remains valid.

Thanks @dial1911 for the pro/con list. I’ll consider that if I do want a cheaper plinker other than a .22lr later on.

 

[Leadhoof]

Yeah, I don’t even know why anyone sells those really short barrels for 5.56, at that point the gas system will be struggling to keep up with it, and the uncorking pressure will be stupid.

As for over-penetration vs under-penetration, I certainly agree that under is far worse.

Pissing off people at indoor ranges must be a large enough market to justify it.

 

[Axeman]

Pissing off people at indoor ranges must be a large enough market to justify it.

And the velocity really falls off too. Totally garbage.

 

[The Mechanic]

Well that answers that.

LOL

 

[The Mechanic]

Ah, ah ah, don't get Van Damned!