Interesting point on birdshot for HD

[AtlMedic]

i read an article that asked various SOF guys their tips for home defense.

One of the people in the article said he preferred a semi auto shotgun. He said his first shell was birdshot so if he made a mistake on identifying the target it was less likely to be fatal with the following shots being buckshot and slugs.

Now we all know birdshot is a terrible choice for HD use, but I thought it was interesting. I still wouldn't do it, but interesting none the less.

 

[Laufen]

i read an article that asked various SOF guys their tips for home defense.

One of the people in the article said he preferred a semi auto shotgun. He said his first shell was birdshot so if he made a mistake on identifying the target it was less likely to be fatal with the following shots being buckshot and slugs.

Now we all know birdshot is a terrible choice for HD use, but I thought it was interesting. I still wouldn't do it, but interesting none the less.

So he's purposefully loading up birdshot anticipating not properly identifying his target? uh..ok. Also, at "in the house" range, birdshot is absolutely devastating. Ever shot a pumpkin at 15 feet with a 3" load of #6's?

Or here's an idea...how about putting a light on your firearm so you can see what you're shooting at?

 

[chance]

Yea, Ive cut a tree down with birdshot. At close range it is devastating.

 

[AtlMedic]

So he's purposefully loading up birdshot anticipating not properly identifying his target? uh..ok. Also, at "in the house" range, birdshot is absolutely devastating. Ever shot a pumpkin at 15 feet with a 3" load of #6's?

Or here's an idea...how about putting a light on your firearm so you can see what you're shooting at?

Yea, Ive cut a tree down with birdshot. At close range it is devastating.

He said it was so if he makes a mistake because he wasn't fully awake he had a chance of not killing. I think it's dumb but I thought it was an interesting point of view.

Bird shot can do some damage but I have personally seen the results on several different people and none of them were physically incapacitated. Not saying it isn't possible to do, but in the 4 people I've seen hit with it I was not impressed. I always try and find out the caliber and bullet style when I go to a shooting so I can see what the different rounds do in the real world.

 

[Ak4747]

Birdshot will definitely get the job done at close range

 

[chance]

Got any pics? Theres been some pics floating around facebook of supposed birdshot injuries, but the spread is so big it makes me think that they were shot at a pretty far distance

 

[AtlMedic]

Got any pics? Theres been some pics floating around facebook of supposed birdshot injuries, but the spread is so big it makes me think that they were shot at a pretty far distance

No pics. That's a huge no-no in my world.

From my limited experience bird shot does not have the mass to travel through much more than a t-shirt and keep enough velocity to cause too much damage.

I did see someone shot with RIP ammo. It passed right through like a FMJ and was found looking almost like an unfired bullet.

 

[cbh13]

i know its not supposed to be the best but I would bet a 12 gauge birdshot in the close ranges seen in a HD situation would still drop anyone about instantly

 

[Laufen]

No pics. That's a huge no-no in my world.

From my limited experience bird shot does not have the mass to travel through much more than a t-shirt and keep enough velocity to cause too much damage.

I did see someone shot with RIP ammo. It passed right through like a FMJ and was found looking almost like an unfired bullet.

At hallway distances you'll blast a fist sized hole clean to the vitals.

 

[Laufen]

He said it was so if he makes a mistake because he wasn't fully awake he had a chance of not killing. I think it's dumb but I thought it was an interesting point of view.

Bird shot can do some damage but I have personally seen the results on several different people and none of them were physically incapacitated. Not saying it isn't possible to do, but in the 4 people I've seen hit with it I was not impressed. I always try and find out the caliber and bullet style when I go to a shooting so I can see what the different rounds do in the real world.

I'm guessing those folks were all quite a ways away. In the house, birdshot will fuck you up right now.

 

[chance]

No pics. That's a huge no-no in my world.

From my limited experience bird shot does not have the mass to travel through much more than a t-shirt and keep enough velocity to cause too much damage.

I did see someone shot with RIP ammo. It passed right through like a FMJ and was found looking almost like an unfired bullet.

I figured, but Ive met a few people with a handful of photos of cases they have worked as police, detectives, emt, etc.

Thats a bit surprising about the rip ammo. Ive never cared for it, but I didnt think it would pass through like that.

 

[Willy Leadwell]

At hallway distances you'll blast a fist sized hole clean to the vitals.

Maybe in theory and tested on gel, but through clothing I'm willing to bet it wouldn't.

 

[AtlMedic]

I'm guessing those folks were all quite a ways away. In the house, birdshot will fuck you up right now.

At close enough it can cause some damage. But damaged and incapacitated are different. This is based on my experience and I'm sure there are plenty of cases of people being killed by birdshot, but I'd be curious to see how many are physically unable to keep fighting. Not including the ones who stop fighting because of pain or fear, ones who can't fight anymore due to blood lose, respiratory failure, or broken bones.

 

[AtlMedic]

I figured, but Ive met a few people with a handful of photos of cases they have worked as police, detectives, emt, etc.

Thats a bit surprising about the rip ammo. Ive never cared for it, but I didnt think it would pass through like that.

Law enforcement can get away with it more than we can. Company policy aside we also have to deal with HIPPA laws on privacy. I have a couple cool ones but I won't post them here. They were taken after the fact by others for educational purposes. But I don't want to even set myself up to be asked since I have coworkers who are members here. If you remind me when I see you next I'll show you.

Yeah all the cops were surprised at how poorly it performed. The guy was shot through the leg and he was a big boy so there was plenty of soft tissue to expand in.

 

[Willy Leadwell]

Law enforcement can get away with it more than we can. Company policy aside we also have to deal with HIPPA laws on privacy. I have a couple cool ones but I won't post them here. They were taken after the fact by others for educational purposes. The guy was shot through the leg and he was a big boy so there was plenty of soft tissue to expand in.

It was specifically designed to decimate elbows.

 

[Laufen]

Maybe in theory and tested on gel, but through clothing I'm willing to bet it wouldn't.

This is just from years of experience out on the farm, blasting stuff with my old single shot 20 gauge.

 

[AtlMedic]

At hallway distances you'll blast a fist sized hole clean to the vitals.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/bird-shot-for-self-defense
This guys study showed only a 17% immediate incapacitation from bird shot.

 

[Laufen]

For quite a while I kept 3" lead #2's in my hd shotgun, and not because I thought it was a less lethal option.

 

[Laufen]

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/bird-shot-for-self-defense
This guys study showed only a 17% immediate incapacitation from bird shot.

Which shot size? My guess is that most of those were from the cheap ass low brass dove loads in 7.5 or 8's.

lol, yeah....look what they're shooting. Not all birdshot is created equally.

 

[AtlMedic]

Which shot size? My guess is that most of those were from the cheap ass low brass dove loads in 7.5 or 8's.

Probably, it just says "all types" when listing bird shot.