Econ bank of japan to have negative interest rate

[Thenut]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/business/international/japan-interest-rate.html?_r=1

nothing new (even though it sounds foreign to us). sweden did this too

the idea is in a socialist society that your money is not yours, so if you keep large amounts of cash in the bank it deserves to be taxed; as the only people who want to have undisclosed finances and remain financially anonymous are criminals

from a macroeconomic sense it actually is supposed to increase the gdp by making it harder for people to conduct business under the radar

the new economist is our enemy, i hate to say it. they seek to maximize overall growth and strength by using ALL available resources (aka they think your money is everyones money and they know how to use it better than you do)

im an economic heretic by today's standards because i believe the market operates best when left alone

noam chomsky has for quite a while (along with howard zinn) advocated for the abolishment of standard currency. since all income is taxed anyhow, why would the earner need to take possession of it in an untraceable fashion?

 

[DoglegArms]

I take out a loan and the jap bank pays me interest?

 

[lftd&pwrstrok'n]

Where do I apply for a home loan?

 

[Thenut]

I take out a loan and the jap bank pays me interest?

doesnt work like that

these are not negative interest rates on loans, simply stored money (savings and checking accounts)

 

[Kobayashi]

Couple this with a serious move toward the abolishment of cash/coin...

 

[Strider12]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/business/international/japan-interest-rate.html?_r=1

nothing new (even though it sounds foreign to us). sweden did this too

the idea is in a socialist society that your money is not yours, so if you keep large amounts of cash in the bank it deserves to be taxed; as the only people who want to have undisclosed finances and remain financially anonymous are criminals

from a macroeconomic sense it actually is supposed to increase the gdp by making it harder for people to conduct business under the radar

the new economist is our enemy, i hate to say it. they seek to maximize overall growth and strength by using ALL available resources (aka they think your money is everyones money and they know how to use it better than you do)

im an economic heretic by today's standards because i believe the market operates best when left alone

noam chomsky has for quite a while (along with howard zinn) advocated for the abolishment of standard currency. since all income is taxed anyhow, why would the earner need to take possession of it in an untraceable fashion?

Any society that collects an income tax assumes the money isn't yours. Section 16 of the FRA is very clear on who is liable for the currency.

People "just following orders" are 100X more a threat than those taking entitlements.

 

[Thenut]

Couple this with a serious move toward the abolishment of cash/coin...

globally it is beginning to happen. but first a world credit will be created=one world gov

 

[Kobayashi]

globally it is beginning to happen. but first a world credit will be created=one world gov

So, what's the net effect to Japanse commercial bank?

 

[Thenut]

So, what's the net effect to Japanse commercial bank?

no idea

and my predictions are hardly what i would call scientific mind you

 

[Kobayashi]

no idea

and my predictions are hardly what i would call scientific mind you

Yep. Definitely ready for a job with the next administration.

But seriously, I'm guessing that the Bank of Japan roughly equals our Federal Reserve. I just know nothing of the relationship between the Fed and commercial banks.

I'm throwing this out for folks without econ degrees as well.

 

[Thenut]

Yep. Definitely ready for a job with the next administration.

But seriously, I'm guessing that the Bank of Japan roughly equals our Federal Reserve. I just know nothing of the relationship between the Fed and commercial banks.

I'm throwing this out for folks without econ degrees as well.

id say less so, or more so

it depends on how you measure value. switch the terms around or the model to which you use and you could have a different winner every time

 

[Shemp]

NIRP.....NIRP for everyone!

 

[Thenut]

NIRP.....NIRP for everyone!

thats the direction we are all headed

trying to figure out how exactly the money supply is supposed to grow with negative interest rates

 

[Shemp]

thats the direction we are all headed

trying to figure out how exactly the money supply is supposed to grow with negative interest rates

The Fed prints more...duh.....I thought you had an economics degree brah

 

[Thenut]

The Fed prints more...duh.....I thought you had an economics degree brah

my degree is in the mail!!!

but i learned everything i need to know from Metalocalypse

 

[Leshaire]

Im no economist but it seems to make sense...

If you have cash, you're loosing anyways.

If you have savings, now you will lose money.

Keeps the money in the market I guess. Seems like a strange way to force money into the market, but I don't see why it wouldn't work?

 

[Thenut]

Im no economist but it seems to make sense...

If you have cash, you're loosing anyways.

If you have savings, now you will lose money.

Keeps the money in the market I guess. Seems like a strange way to force money into the market, but I don't see why it wouldn't work?

thats not entirely the idea

the idea is that much of the GDP and taxable income is not earned due to an underground economy (crime) or not reporting/underreporting

think of it like this.

a waitress makes 2 bucks an hour. she also gets tips. the tips are to be taxed, so if she receives cash then there is a huge incentive for her to under-report her tip intake. she deposits the cash into a traditional savings account. cash is anonymous and the IRS/gov does not like this. they have no way of telling if the cash came about from her underreported earnings, a gift, or if she sold drugs. but if you install negative interest rates, this will mean folks who operate on a cash heavy end of things will have a much harder time storing their cash.

in short the gov believes the only people who have large amounts of cash or with to remain anonymous financially are criminals

additionally, certain levels of savings actually help the economy in a macro sense

for instance:

look at south korea. it is an economic powerhouse and huge success story. how does a country go from ruined (civil war) to being one of the greatest economic forces to contend with in the region?

their dictator park (and chiles pinochet) had many of the same ideas, but one that did work was a forced savings among their citizen-workers

im not talking social security, i mean they were encouraged, enticed, and at times damn near forced to save their own money into their own accounts

not saying that alone secured their success (they did alot of smart and long term infrastructure development. first steel, then to shipping, then to low level manufacturing, then to electronics and cars)

the short of it is this is a push to annex everyones finances together and it very damaging to the economy

 

[Leshaire]

Makes sense, wasn't thinking of it that way.

Has this be introduced in the past with a positive outcome on the economy/gdp? You said Sweden but what happened as a result?

 

[Thenut]

Makes sense, wasn't thinking of it that way.

Has this be introduced in the past with a positive outcome on the economy/gdp? You said Sweden but what happened as a result?

its too early to tell really

the negative interest rate may or may not have a huge impact directly. it is the precedent it sets that is the most dangerous

sweden is a socialist country. they operate different from ours so for them it was not such a big deal (they have far more social welfare programs than we do and as a result they are a less cash heavy society as it is)

kinda like this

in europe, more income is taxed with the return of more public goods
in america, income is less taxed with the return emphasized in private goods

in europe you have more of your paycheck deducted so they can pay for your (and other peoples) doctor visits
here, less of your paycheck is taxes so you can shop around and find the best healthcare for you individually (in theory)

both have merits and issues, but it is very important to note that what might work in one place will not work in another. using sweden or japan (both very homogeneous and socialist societies) as a litmus test for what would work in america is not going to work

 

[Thenut]

ohhh one final important note

I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE 100% CORRECT

everyone, please research this all yourself and discuss it often. it is the only way to keep from repeating flasehoods. so dont just take my word for it