77gr Sierra Tipped MKs

[Waterguy]

Reading the wind is on the shooter not the round and certainly not the die. As I said a sub moa load at 100 yards with tight velocity numbers and appropriate bullet choice will be sub moa at 500 given the shooters abilities. Micrometer seating dies have dials for easy adjustments in seating depths which is nice when you shoot multiple bullets in the same caliber or doing seating depth tests in load development. I have whidden, redding, rcbs, and lee dies. They are all capable of producing match winning ammo based on my real world results.

Yeah I never said the wind was on the die? I just simply said that variations in the rounds are a lot more pronounced the farther from the target you are. Yeah I have loaded quite a few rounds myself that go in one hole at 100 yards but at 500 not so much.

 

[qodeBebop]

Yeah I never said the wind was on the die? I just simply said that variations in the rounds are a lot more pronounced the farther from the target you are. Yeah I have loaded quite a few rounds myself that go in one hole at 100 yards but at 500 not so much.

No you brought the wind in as a variable in longer range accuracy when your initial statement was that lee dies were only good for 100 yard ammo which is simply untrue. A load that shoots a one hole group at 100 yards shouldn't be expected to shoot a one hole group at 500 yards but one that's shoots a 1/2 moa group at 100 yards should be capable of a 1/2 moa group at 500 yards.

 

[Waterguy]

No you brought the wind in as a variable in longer range accuracy when your initial statement was that lee dies were only good for 100 yard ammo which is simply untrue. A load that shoots a one hole group at 100 yards shouldn't be expected to shoot a one hole group at 500 yards but one that's shoots a 1/2 moa group at 100 yards should be capable of a 1/2 moa group at 500 yards.

No I love lee dies. I think you have mistook what I am saying. Lee dies are not bad at all but you cannot compare the consistency of match dies to the lee. The key to accuracy is doing the same thing to each round. I am sorry but match dies are more capable of that than are the lee that is not to say lee dies are not capable to make great rounds. I will say again variations in the rounds may not show up or are noticeable at shorter distance, say 100 yards. They will however show up at longer distance. No one in the thread even asked about the twist rate of the barrel he was loading for, that's a big deal when dealing with the 223 5.56 round. Every rifle is different and getting load data should be a personal thing that requires testing for the rifle being used. It is important to know what causes the round to stabilize and be accurate. Don't take advise from a forum look the stuff up for yourself in a reputable loading manual or download an e book. Learn what affects accuracy and it makes load development a lot easier.

 

[DarthVader]

I think that barrel is 1/8 twist

 

[freedom]

I think that barrel is 1/8 twist

It is, Bergera 1/8.

 

[freedom]

@handloader @qodeBebop

Where can I find a good "starters" equipment list for loading match loads?

Like I said, I purchased I really old set of RCBS stuff, I got 2 manuals withit, one from '73 and 1 from '61. It had the press priming tool, but I did not get the large primer tube or seating pin. RCBS did not sell just those pieces, just the entire press priming set-up. I emailed them, was honest about buying it used and how old it was, asked if I could just buy the missing pieces, and they sent me the whole set up for free. That seemed above and beyond. I have had a master reloader tell me to stay away from Lyman because the once time he needed CS from them, he felt it let him down. I've never heard a bad thing about RCBS' CS from anybody.

 

[Kyle Turner]

RCBS has stellar customer service. I doubt I've ever paid for any replacement parts when I asked for them.

 

[Kyle Turner]

If you can get the time to return to the range let me know in advance (remind my old arse) and I'll bring the Oehler chronograph so you can get an accurate MV in fps. From there we can use STRELOK with altitude data from the location you are shooting at in Jan to calc your expected bullet drop at ranges from 200 to 600 yards. On the day (in Jan.) we can input wind observed, barometric pressure and air temp to fine tune your "come-ups".

 

[qodeBebop]

No I love lee dies. I think you have mistook what I am saying. Lee dies are not bad at all but you cannot compare the consistency of match dies to the lee. The key to accuracy is doing the same thing to each round. I am sorry but match dies are more capable of that than are the lee that is not to say lee dies are not capable to make great rounds. I will say again variations in the rounds may not show up or are noticeable at shorter distance, say 100 yards. They will however show up at longer distance. No one in the thread even asked about the twist rate of the barrel he was loading for, that's a big deal when dealing with the 223 5.56 round. Every rifle is different and getting load data should be a personal thing that requires testing for the rifle being used. It is important to know what causes the round to stabilize and be accurate. Don't take advise from a forum look the stuff up for yourself in a reputable loading manual or download an e book. Learn what affects accuracy and it makes load development a lot easier.

I feel like you're one post away from telling me I can't load accurate ammo FL sizing my brass and without weight sorting my components.

 

[Waterguy]

I feel like you're one post away from telling me I can't load accurate ammo FL sizing my brass and without weight sorting my components.

What? I am sure you are the most awesome ever! Carry on

 

[freedom]

50 down, 200 to go.

 

[freedom]

@DarthVader I got the auto powder dispenser figured out today. There is a way to start trickling earlier in the pour. The factory default is .2grs, I bumped it to 1.2grs. It only over charged a few times, but that's a problem with the type of powder I'm using. It went much faster today.


Prepped and primed about 150 pieces of brass and finished 49 rounds, spilled some powder without realizing it and made a oops bullet.
149 down, 100 to go

 

[DarthVader]

Looking good bro!

 

[freedom]

Real world results time. @handloader was right. My match loads were virtually indistinguishable from PMC bronze with iron sights. The amazing thing was, and a complete accident, was my 77gr TMK load and PMC bronze had basically the same POA/POI all the way to 600 yards. I chronographed both and the hand loads were 2635 fps and the PMC was just over 3000. I'm assuming the higher BC of the match King is responsible.

 

[freedom]

In the Appleseed COF we shoot 10 shots standing at 100 yards in 2 minutes. Transition to seated,10 shots with a mag change, in 55 seconds at 200. Transition to prone, 10 shots with a mag change, in 65 seconds. All these shots are worth 1 point. Stage 4 is slow fire prone. 10 shots at 400 in 5minutes with each shot worth 2 points. At the CMP range, because there is no 400 yard line it's shot at 300 but the scoring area is reduced to the X,10 and 9 ring, the equivalent of 4moa at 400 yards.

I shot two completed AQTs, one with handloads and one with PMC. I went 46/50 with both.

Handloads was 10/10, 9/10, 9/10, 18/20(9/10 doubled).

PMC was 10/10, 7/10, 9/10, 20/20.

 

[freedom]

Rapid fire prone at 300 with handloads.

 

[freedom]

Handloads at 600 yards. The wind was crazy all weekend. The wind flags down range were showing 10+mph all weekend in different directions at the same time. I have a newfound respect for people that are good at making wind calls. I don't how they do it when it's blowing straight at your face on the line, blowing 10+mph left at 300 and 10+mph right at 600.



PMC bronze at 600. No sight adjustments needed between ammo.

 

[DarthVader]

You're my hero.

 

[freedom]

You're my hero.

That 600 yard target is huge. It makes the groups look deceptively small.

 

[DarthVader]

That 600 yard target is huge. It makes the groups look deceptively small.

For me, it would need to be huge!